The Secret Society of Lathe Trolls

flozki · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 50 Location: switzerland

hello
i have to do some edison cylinder recordings. has someone done any yet? if yes i like to share experience.
i plan to build a cutting device out of an old edison phonograph with regulated mandril motor, feedscrew for the recording head and a custommade vertical monocutterhead with feedback.

the blank cylinders are my biggest problem at the moment. i bought some on eby to recoat for the beginning.later i like to cast my own cylinders.

what material? what coating? i dont know yet. any ideas tips, experience is very appreciated

flo

JayDC · Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject:

a piece of pipe coated in paint?.. Confused

Maybe just a piece of PVC pipe, like a cylinder vinylrecorder..

emorritt · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 60 Location: Louisiana

Flo:

I've done a lot of work with Edison equipment doing acoustic recording. I have designed several recorders that work better than the "home" recorders sold by the Edison company, but they're all acoustic. There is a guy in England who makes newly poured wax blanks. I will locate his contact information and e-mail it to you. I have also seen a setup like you describe with an electric cutter set up to record vertically (they used a Fairchild head). If you're looking for a way to master and produce copies, I do know that Apollo masters has attempted to make a "master" Edison cylinder - I don't know for who, but there is a picture on their website. The problem with using a metal-base master for cylinder recordings is that the original couldn't be broken out of the resulting mold once the plating and backing had been built up on the original. Cylinder "stampers" (molds) tend to last longer than disc stampers since the material is flowed in, shrinks, and drops out, rather than having material forcefully pressed against the mold as with flat records.

Hope this helps.

kd88 · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Rantoul, Illinois

I have purchased blanks from Paul Morris 'accross the pond', ie., UK. They are excellent, but they are brown wax and therefore not acceptable for cutting at 200 TPI (four minute).

I have made my own blanks also. I used a formula I extrapolated from a variety of sources. The basic idea is that you use lots of stearic, some wax (I used parrafin and beeswax), a dropper of lye in solution (to neutralize the stearic?) and a dash of vybar to hold it all together.

I've also made a series of electronic recorders. If you want to cut a good deep groove that plays well on vintage equipment, I recommend using a peizo driver. If you want to see how wide a range you can cut to wax, and you want to play back with a magnetic cartridge, use a magnetic driver. Either way, all of this is doable and very instructive.

I'm not done with these experiments.

I've got a nice test rig that is an Edison Standard D bedplate and gearing, but the motor is a stepper and it is controlled by a linistepper driver. This is basically CNC gear. I also have the potential to run the motor under computer control, and have thought that Max would make a good platform for doing this. There a are a number of freeware dedicated stepper driver applications floating around. I have yet to actually try it.

If you want more info, I'll do my best to share my data.
_________________
kay dee 88

"a warm tube and soft wax..."

flozki · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 50 Location: switzerland

ok. i did some tests with pp-tubes.normally used for water sink installation.

i think that could work. except they are not conical.
at the moment i have to redo the head suspension. so some pictures either from emmoritt or kd88 would be very appreciated...

my first impressions:

http://www.floka.com/lofi/edison/edison_cut.html

but definitely have to change the head suspension.
i will come back with the solution.

so if you have some pictures. form the piezo head, the suspension, whatver... let me know

kd88: did you cast your own cylinders? how you have done the casting tool?

emorritt · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 60 Location: Louisiana

Hey kd88; do you happen to know Shawn Borri? He's from IL - don't remember where exactly, but he makes the original Edison white wax from the 1880's and has a device to cast blanks.

If anyone's interested I just picked up a 1925 Western Electric head and would like to post some pictures, but don't know how - anyone know how/where I can do this? It's one of the first Maxfield/Harrison 'rubber line' recorders, complete with original advance ball. It doesn't have a permanent magnet like later cutters, but a field coil just like the first loudspeakers that creates the magnetic field. All coils test good - going to try to figure out how to mount it on one of my lathes. Wierd shaped so kinda difficult.

andybee · Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 63

wicked!!!!
Very Happy

kd88 · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Rantoul, Illinois

Shawn Borri...
He might have drifted to New York State. I managed to 'win' a couple of his blanks on ebay. His blanks are white wax (ceresin). Quite competent. It's like making records on the late 1890-style wax, so an instructive activity. fer sure.

Molds: I used an ordinary polycarbonate candle mold, with a paper core to for the shape of the mandrel. This worked great. You can peel your core mold (destroying it, but it was easy to make) when the wax is hard.
This method is very stright forward. You are not messing with difficult materials. As someone other than me pointed out (relating to making wax masters), the wax must cool evenly and slowly. But if you put the narrow end at the bottom, you have gravity doing some of the work of settling-in the cooling wax. If you wrap some plastic or cloth around the core form, you have a stronger blank. I used good old cling wrap from the kitchen.

You'll need something (a lathe, a shaver...) to get the resulting cylinder trued up.

I'll do some pix soon, Flo.
_________________
kay dee 88

"a warm tube and soft wax..."