The Secret Society of Lathe Trolls

cementimental · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 32

..but I must cut.

My Emil Berliner kit is hopefully sailing my way from Japan (from HLJ.com) but I've a horrible feeling it's going to my old address and may or may not be successfully redirected.. Sad

But if + when I get it I'll be making some stupidly low-fi records almost certainly not playable on any real record player. Yey!
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Steve E. · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:10 am Post subject:

Tell me more about this kit! Does it use an acid/etching process? My limited understanding of Berliner's discs is that they involved a process akin to lithography, with the sounds burnished into, what, animal fat? Am I making that up? Something crazy like that. And that the records sounded abysmal. I don't even know what sort of phonograph can play them.

Anyway, it's really interesting to me that you are going to mess with this technology, and I hope you write more on this!!

cementimental · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 32

Wow, that etching technology sounds crazy! Anyway, this toy kit works by you yelling into a plastic cup with a sewing needle attatched which scratches a CD or whatever material you want to try, and is playable back on the same machine (or a friends) and almost certainly not on a real record player! Smile

However abysmal the original records sound, this thing is gonna sound much worse I'm sure! Smile

here's a page you can buy one, with info:
http://www.verycoolthings.com/vct/Neo_getpage.cgi?page=itemtoy.html&itemID=13460&cool

I got mine from here:
http://www.hlj.com/product/GAK366439
but they've none in stock right now.

I have a horrible feeling mine has got lost in transit somewhere... HLJ ship stuff by sea so it's cheap but takes ages, but it's taken much longer than I'd expect... I have a horrible feeling it's gone to my old address, though if it has it should eventually get redirected I hope...

They also sell the brilliantly named "Cup Phonograph Kit in Edison Style which records onto 'wax cylinders' which are actually plastic cups! Smile

If my emile thing doesn't eventually turn up I may get one of these instead...

Either way I'll be making some stupidly limited and obscure noise releases probably playable only by other people with the same toys! Smile

How cool would it be to release an EP recorded on a plastic cup!? Smile

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http://www.cementimental.com - noise
http://www.spiteyourface.com - films
http://www.cultivatetwiddle.com - foolish

Steve E. · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject:

That is SUPER COOL! And only $24 plus shipping? I gotta get one.

and yes, recording an EP using a plastic cup, very cool.

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from http://library.thinkquest.org/19537/Line.html :

1893

Emile Berliner realized the need and business potential of inventing a process that could inexpensively duplicate master recordings. Berliner recorded onto a zinc disc covered with a film of fat. Applying acid etched the grooves made in the fat onto the metal disc. The disc was then electroplated in copper to make a mold. Emile Berliner used this mold to stamp his sound duplicates into hard rubber discs. These 7 inch discs were marketed in a paper sleeve. The records included the lyrics of the song. This helped the listeners make out parts that may not have been recognizable. The duplicates were not as clear as the masters.

cementimental · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 32

My Emil Berliner kit got lost in the post but HLJ.com are nice so they're sending a replacement at no additional cost! yeye!

So i'll be able to make some super-lo-fi, unplayable records some time soon! Smile

cementimental · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 32

Yey my replacement kit arrived this morning! Will post observations, pics + recordings here when I've built the thing...

cementimentallllll · Guest

Didn't do a great deal of experimenting with the emil berliner thing but it is pretty cool. Very hard to get anything by the faintest results in my experience, but fun stuff. It's packed away in storage right now but will fiddle around more with it some time soon.

In other lathe news, I won a dictaphone soundscriber on ebay uk for £1 today! don't know if it actually works, but looking forward to giving it a go! Smile

will of course post here with results and/or questions depending! Smile

buckettovsissors · Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 56

hi this is the cutters and their work section but iantgotno lathe.
but im casting a negative as we speak ill post the details later.
anyway i was wondering,
has anyone tried to play somthing cut with that machine on a record player?
-theo
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drdub · Joined: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 48 Location: AUSTRIA

this is interesting, tells you about materials and where to get it:

http://www.drdub.com/board/upload/viewtopic.php?id=111&action=new
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buckettovsissors · Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 56

yea that was my insperation ,i talked with some others on another board and i used german wood glue ,it even said express on it allthough it took around 30 hours to totaly dry, maybe next time i will try to make it a little thinner.
Anyway i just used normal weißleim für holz or somthing like that ,it was sitting around the house i used about half a small bottle on one side of a 12" and the result was great, allthough it was difficult for me to pop all of the air holes becuase it seemed that new ones appeared after a few hours the negative is playable and sounds good, no extra hissing and so on, allthough its not as good as the orginal its pertty good. I am going to contiute doing it and maybe i will release somthing in this format.

And my orginal question was if anyone has tryed playing somting cut with that mahcine from Japan.

Best,
Theo
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cementimental · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 32

cool, glad to hear it works!!! I wonder how durable PVA is for records? Probably not very I imagine?!

buckettovsissors · Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 56

i donno but after about 5 plays sounds the same.
ill give it a play workout and see if i notice any diffrences.
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cementimental · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 32

coo, test to destruction! Smile

PVA is Vinyl, kind of .... Polyvinyl acetate

alienmanstk · Joined: 19 Aug 2008 Posts: 19

hi, i have that japanese gramophone kit! Its a really cool toy. I have been able to record on to old cd's. You have to adjust the speed of the turntable yourself. It comes with the stroboscope. I am able to record about 2 minutes of music onto a disk, when the turntable is moving at 33 1/3 rpm's. Unfortunetly, the wind up mechanism is extremly loud. Im thinking of replacing this with an old record player motor. But , that still leaves you with the limited recording time. Maybe its possible to create a larger guide plate for the recording arm? This is gonna be tough! any suggestions??? This is actually my first experiment in the world of record recording. I am on to the recorette/soundscriber! Honestly, I dont reccomend buying this gramophone as a serious lathe. If you want a cool toy, than great, go for it. Ill try and post some audio clips of recordings i've made with the thing. I hope to have more luck with the recordette...

emorritt · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Louisiana

Berliner's recording blanks were polished zinc plates covered with a flowed-on coating of beeswax (and some other materials) dissolved in benzene or some other petroleum product, forming an acid resistant coating. When solidified, it was not cut but basically scratched with the vibrating element from a recording soundbox that left a 'trail' of the sound vibrations in the waxy coating. The flaked material that was removed by the recorder was brushed away and the disk was sprayed with nitric acid (later chromic acid) which bit into the zinc where it was exposed by the recorder, forming a 'groove'. After the coating was stripped the resulting metal part was used to make molds and copies of the disk in Duranoid - the hard rubber material that was used for telephone receiver bodies. I have a Berliner Gramophone and some records; the sound isn't great and is far from the quality of an early wax cylinder, but is fairly accurate and of good volume. And yes, it sounds as Eldridge Johnson described it, like "a partially educated parrot with a sore throat and a cold in the head".