The Secret Society of Lathe Trolls

Self-lather · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 49 Location: Atlanta, Ga

Hey all,

What I thought was going to be a Recordio turned out to actually be a Recordette. The description said it was a Wilcox Gay record recorder that ran at 33, 45, and 78.. so I made the assumption it was a Recordio and not a Recordette. Either way, I'm happy to have anything to play with. Heres a pic:

The radio and turntable seem to work great, although the sound on the record playback is a bit rough. I couldn't figure out how to properly engage the record head and lead screw, but after taking a look inside it made a whole lot more sense.

The mic dosen't seem to do anything, but recording from the AM radio seems to work. I did some tests with CD-Rs, and it did do some etching, but the sound was barely audible when I played it back. I played around with different weights on the record arm, but all the results seemed basically the same. Also, it wouldn't even come close to playing back on my Numark player, the needle just slipped off!

Since I'm getting noisey playback, and barely audible recording, I pulled the head out to see if I could locate the problem. Its a Shure Crystal Pickup labeled P89L. It looks clean, but I know this can be decieving. The connectors were corroded, so I was going to clean them when I accidently broke one the connections from the wires. So I'll have to solder that back on!

If the corrosion turns out to not be the problem, does anyone know what else this could be caused from? A Technician at my work suggested that the pre-amp may have a bad tube in it. And of course, I may just need to get a new head.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer!

-Thomas

cuttercollector · Joined: 11 Jun 2006 Posts: 307 Location: San Jose, CA

First of all, congrats. on finding a clean 3 speed one of these. They are hard to find! Also it's great that the turntable works mechanically ok and the radio plays. Most require a lot of restoration to get to even that point. When you tried playing a record was the sound near the same level as the radio? If not the crystal pickup used for record and play is probably bad. If at the same level but very distorted it is (or was) good. You should know that these were never meant for microgroove playback even though they had the 3 speed turntable. They had a dual stylus that engaged a chisle shaped recording cutting stylus when you raised the arm to the cutting position and a conventional (for the era) 78 size stylus when in the lower free pivoting playback position. DO NOT try playing back any record with a cutting stylus if that is now what is in there. Even a normal setscrew straight shank playback stylus of the size for 78s will plow through and basically destroy a modern stereo Lp.
I would suggest the following proceedure.
Remove the connector pins from the cartridge before re-soldering the wires because soldering whille attached to the crystal cartridge will fry it from the heat.
Once that is done, try re- installing it and seeing if a 78 record plays back with a playback stylus at about the same level and quality as the am radio.
If you now have no level from phono playback, the cryatal has gone bad.
This happened to me after trying to record with one I had because the capacitor that blocks the amplifier's high voltage DC from the cartridge when driven as a cutter was leaky and put high DC voltage across the cutter in the record mode and fried it. THIS MUST be fixed before you attempt to use the unit to cut. If the crystal cartridge/cutter is bad or the crystal microphone element is bad you can obtain service and or replacements through Gib at West-tech services. I would also try to obtain a standard cutting stylus as well as a microgroove cutting stylus. I would not use this as a record player at all. If I was going to play anything on it, I would only play 78s with a correct sized playback straight setscrew type stylus. NOT stereo Lps!
Once all that is squared away you can begin to cut. Does yours have a permanantly wired in microphone and a single RCA phono jack labled "AUX" for a line input? My 3 speed Silvertone labeled one has this. Some of the other 78 only ones I had had an RCA jack for the microphone.
You can use any high impedance high output unbalanced mic where the orginal one hooked up. Like the kind used for blues harp for example that would work into a guitar amp. For that matter an electric guitar would probably work direct into it also. If it was hardwired, I would make it a
1/4" jack on a pigtail.
Good luck and happy restoration.

Self-lather · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 49 Location: Atlanta, Ga

Wow, I had no idea what I was getting. I just wanted it because it would do 33 and 45 speed. It does have a permanently wired mic and an RCA jack which is labeled "phono". I assume this was meant for running a signal from another record player.

I haven't had a chance yet to solder the connectors back together, but I did try playing a 45 on the machine before the connector broke. I now know I had the improper needle, but luckily it was a 45 I don't really care about. It did in fact play, and the volume level was acceptable.. the sound quality was just noisy. So I'm guessing my cartridge is most likely ok. Do you possibly think all I need is a new needle?

I emailed WestTech, and they said it was $30 to rebuild the cartridge, and $60 for a new microgroove stylus. Not to bad considering. I think step one might be getting a new needle and possibly a new cartridge. If this doesn't solve the problem, I may send it in to Gib for servicing.

I also have a Recordio on the way, which I bought for cheap, and is in questionable condition. We will see how it turns out. I'll keep updating as I progress. Thanks for all the knowledgeable advice, it is very appreciated.

-Thomas

cuttercollector · Joined: 11 Jun 2006 Posts: 307 Location: San Jose, CA

I think most of what is lacking by the younger experimenters on this board is some of the stuff I grew up with and now as an old guy can pass on. The historical facts about when certain technologies came into wide use and so for example why a 3 speed recordette would pre-date most microgroove 33 and 45 records, let alone stereo ones, because those microgroove records were leading edge technology in the early 50s as was FM (mono) radio, whereas non-microgroove 78 records and AM radio were"standard" and had been around 30 years or more by then.
To put this in context, I got my first record player in the mid late 50s when I was 3. And I have been into it ever since. I think I built a phonograph and explained the basic principles of how records work in an elementary school Science Fair project in about 5th grade. Because I had both 78 and 45 records as a kid, at probably 4-5 years old I can remember my father patiently explaining to me how the grooves were different sizes and I had to "turn over the needle" to the correct size when I wanted to listen to my 78 vs. my 45 childrens records. He was meanwhile cobbling together his first efforts at component HiFi systems and then converted to stereo when records became available in the very late 50s, then got a stereo tape recorder in the early 60s. I soaked all this up like a sponge even though I was only 6 or so then.
So forgive me if I occasionally seem irritated that people who grew up in the post-record, even post-tape or any analog media, and now post-cd era have no idea about stylus sizes, groove widths, speeds and when each technology was introduced and came into widespread use.
It is great that there is such a vinyl revival happening at all, because I still love it far more than any mp3 on my computer.

MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THAT YOUR CAPACITOR IS NOT LEAKY AND PUTTING DC VOLTAGE ACROSS THE CARTRIDGE/CUTTER IN RECORD MODE OR YOU WILL BE SENDING IT BACK AND PAYING GIB TO REBUILD IT MULTIPLE TIMES!
Just wanted to make that real clear. Smile

Self-lather · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 49 Location: Atlanta, Ga

Well, I decided to send the cartridge into Gib to have it serviced, and to get a new micro groove stylus. I will break out the old multi meter and check that the DC isn't leaking on to the record head, and replace the capacitor if needed. Thanks for the tip. I think this may be all my Recordette needs to get up and running. I can't wait!

-Thomas