The Secret Society of Lathe Trolls

monoplex · Joined: 11 May 2009 Posts: 21

I am interested in trying this. any tips? i have tried a few cuts, but no success. Using R.O.K M5 cutting arm. I tried the search function on here, to much info to search through.

andybee · Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 118

you need a controller for the head, to move it up and down.
neumann lathes have a electric controlled headmount,
with a coil and spring inside.
I use the famous vinylium pitch98 controller for the locked grooves.
it is possible, to adjust the downtime of the head very exact.
1.8 seconds at 33RPM.
I think, without this equipment, it is hard to cut a perfect loop.

Andreas

markrob · Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Philadelphia Area

mossboss · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am Post subject: Locked Grooves

Hey All
This has been done so many times long before computers where invented It is a case of lot's of coffee between a few grooves at a time as your head starts spinning On our VMS with no computer just manually we have done it plenty of times with the last 12" about 160? odd grooves a side The guy sold about 500 of them with about 100 of them specialy packed with about 30 odd flip books with cartoon characters that moved as you flicked them to the sound which kept repeating over and over Quite hypnotic, or an esoteric experience (indeed)
Seriously
You just need the times right on with slight bit of correction towards the inner grooves not much though a few m/s The hunan ear is exceptional
No need for all of that Mr Rob Just make sure you get plenty of practice sharp ears, quick reflexes, to press the head lift button, lots of coffee on the ready You can take your time sliding the head across for the next groove and take a sip of the black liquid in, Not beer
I am not sure that a computer with software will only do it for you It has been done plenty of times manually
By the way it is a bit harder to do a double cut say a groove within the land of normal cut as the pitch auto compensation system on the neumann wants to do it's thing Easy on a fixed pitch machine We are not prepared to fiddle with it so it is a bit of a task Take it from experience ( a few ruined lacquers is testament to it) But we have done a few of those as well Another esoteric experience Rolling Eyes

On another note about cuts: It was a trick that cutters used to play on the mother QC girls dept, in years gone past, again on a fixed pitch machine
They use to cut a deep grove with the track on it and than cut it again or another track on lesser depth If they got it right you got the same track superimposed that sounded like sustain or echoing If they cut another track on it the girls would go crazy as the stylus would pick one or the other track Imagine that?
Of course one had to be doing well with the boss as it had to go through the whole process up the the mother stage In other words make a metal master and form a mother from it since this was played back for declicking as well as approval from the powers to be Quality Control, etc
Well I have never seen it but I certainly heard about it from a very nice horses mouth and He was the instigator Great cutter as well he was It was a bit of fun for him as the girls use to give him a hard time on his cut's and he did it more than once when they got cheeky He kept his job as well Cool

Cheers

KALIA · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:46 am Post subject:

Is it possible to cut a single locked groove on the vinylium dubcutter? with out the pitch computer?

thank you

dietrich10 · Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Posts: 178 Location: usa

question for andy:

does the pitch98 have a setting for automatic drop and lift for cutting the loops?

I was told that D&M Berlin has a VMS modified to drop/lift perfect for loops.
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Simon · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 449 Location: London, England

From what I understand this is on an old Presto 6n
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markrob · Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Philadelphia Area

Hi All,

Just gave it a try on my 6N. I did check the platter speed with a strobe disc, but it was not off by any significant amount. No need for any loop time adjustment. So, I created a drum loop in Cubase at 133.333 bpm and printed about a minute to a wav file. Loaded it in to my computer, started playback, set my record level and manually lowered the head. Watched for just a bit longer than 1 rev and manually raised the head. The playback was perfect!

Mark

mossboss · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: Locked Grooves

And here is to you Mr Robinson!!!
I told you you don't need all this stuff Just do it like the old hands do Good for you Now you need a bit less on the inner grooves as they are obviously shorter but it all depends on the music In some of it is fine in some is a little harsh It is not hard to do but as I said when it gets to over 100 you need the hot black liquid
Cheers

markrob · Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Philadelphia Area

Hi Mossy,

I don't see the need to adjust loop times at inner diameters. The rotational time is the same anywhere on the disc.

I took a look at how well the locked groove overlapped with an eye loop. You could see where the groove widened a bit. Possibly due to some slight movement of the head as I did not atempt to lock its position mechanically. Also could be due to some slight skew due to timing error. It did not seem to affect the sound as there was no click at the overlap point.

Mark

mossboss · Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: Locked grooves

Hey Mark and others here
The timing is right However when you are in the inner part of say a 12" record, the perimeter, the length of the groove is about 1.5" sorter than the very outside At around 15 minutes in, is a little less, 1.4" and so forth, so in terms of say "beats" you are about 6 to many on the inner part of the record by comparison to the outer grooves It is a plain physical fact. I can tell you in some stuff the ear picks it
Given an extremely accurate speed and an appropriate "beat" you Should not be able to hear a click at all but than again this does not happen in real life does it? I have heard a couple over the years without any and we have done it as well but it may be there if you are doing it manually.
Plenty of practice or a computer as Andy B has, which is programmed so as to take care of this I would have thought (AndyB? input please)
At the end of the day you did cut a few locked grooves manually It is what matters As you said they sound OK even on a first attempt
Cheers

markrob · Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Philadelphia Area

Hi Mossy,

Sorry, but I think you are wrong here. The time it takes to make one revolution is what is important, not the length of the groove at a given diameter. If the loop is timed for N number of beats in 1.8 seconds (the time per rev at 33.333 RPM), then it will fit no matter where you are on the disc in terms of diameter. In my case, I was using 4 beats per rev (a one measure loop). So I set my loop tempo for 4 X 33.333 Rpm or 133.333 bpm. If I had cut at 45 RPM, I would have used 180 bpm.

Mark

mossboss · Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: Locked Grooves

Really? Ok Than
Cheers

MEGAMIKE · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:24 am Post subject:

hi i do loop grooves and its just the timing and marking the record (start stop etcetc) ...if you dj and loop records with to of the same copy then its much easy..
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monoplex · Joined: 11 May 2009 Posts: 21

What I was trying to do was have the ending of the record loop instead of a lead out. This might be too tough for a newbie such as myself.

cymbalism · Joined: 22 Apr 2009 Posts: 109 Location: omaha.nebraska

Simon · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 449 Location: London, England

I am going to have to post a manual
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Happy to learn something new.
Wanted: Stylus for Presto head, Mono heads Grampian, Fairchild, Presto, Fairchild 740 lathe, Presto 8n, 8d 8dg or Neumann AM31 or A131, Presto, Rek O Kut or wot ever recording Amps, PM me what you have for sale.

markrob · Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Philadelphia Area

piaptk · Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 114

I've been having a problem cutting a silent lock groove on my 6n... just a plain old, end of the record lock.

I lift up the little blade from the feedscrew, watch a black dot on my turntable go around and lift the head as soon as it's made it. It locks fine, but it gets increasingly staticy and fluttery as that last 1.8 sec goes around and around.

Also, when I cut a locked groove with sound happening, it skips a line. so you are missing 1.8 seconds (i'm guessing)before the 1.8 sec locked groove kicks in.

What is my problem?